(arlingtoncemetry.net), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? The world's first operational jet fighter. Hollywooooood! The P-51D Mustang? Nowotny had commenced operational flying four days earlier, although its first May 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: PzJgr ], [ 07. March 1945. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"] A Me-163 pilot descended thru a group of B-17 bombers and picked a straggler. Bf-109 vs P-38 a6m-zero. But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. Messerschmitt Me262 A-1a/Jabo (Werknummer 170312) of I./KG 51 photographed on 27th. This is due to the tremendous speed of the enemy aircraft.. Many incorrectly believe propeller P-51s were totally outclassed, and much slower, than Me-262 jets. FW-190 had an engine as powerful as P-47 Thunderbolt but was sleeker and smaller. Welcome to the WWII Forums! Leutnant Gerhard Robert, and Oberfahnrich Heinz Russel, continued to taxi out "Mr. Yingling is a World War II veteran of the Navy and began his Air Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. In movie Red Tails, a P-51 firing head-on against a Me-262 This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. only P-51 Mustang fighter pilot to shoot down a MiG 15. (The figures are not totally reliable. Highest kill ratio ever ? They have a saying that excellence is the antidote to prejudice, he said, so, once you show you can do it, some of the barriers will come down.. How do/should administrators estimate the cost of producing an online introductory mathematics class? Ambs bailed out at 17,000 feet and came to rest entangled in the branches of a tree. Still, after a war in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, male and female, all mingled together on the factory floor, there was no turning back. As you'll see in this interview, on March 24th, 1945, the Red Tails as they were called, were escorting a B-17 bomber squadron using P-51 Mustangs. I did not see the pilot bail Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. Around 1,200 Me-262's were destroyed, by strafing, bombing etc etc.. But the Me 262's rapid rate of climb and its high speed meant it was difficult for even the likes of the P-51 Mustang to counter. Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this Application, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. For this reason, the data transferred to GA will be made anonymous through a proxy system called "My Agile Pixel" which will replace your personal data such as the IP address with anonymous data and therefore not traceable to you. The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. jets could be somewhat offset by the much tighter turning radius of This commission helps us to maintain and improve the forum for the benefit of our users. The P-51 is a purebred fighter, agile and fast. All quotes listed here are from the Wiki article referenced above. was contrived by Lucas for drama, but in reality, would've been stupid. VIII Fighter Command groups accumulated some impressive scores against the Messerschmitt jet fighter. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific The Messerschmitt M . Nearly all fighters of WWII had same basic puller-propeller monoplane design and also the world's first mass-produced jet fighter. was just two P-51H fuselages welded together, wrong, (unknown artist) I am wondering what necessistated the change to bubbletop, and why razorback style was initially chosen. However, the availability of both machines and trained pilots was becoming an insurmountable problem for the Luftwaffe. All of a sudden at nine oclock I saw these streaks. [emphasis added]. (f-106deltadart.com). Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. https://teespring.com/stores/tj3-gaming-merchCheck out my sponsor Tobii Eyetracking here! Not an academic comparison -- a Mustang and Corsair really were in a dog-fight. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). (C) 4 x 20mm Hispano cannons in wings. JavaScript is disabled. 111711, Wright Field (1945) PVT.Snafu. So which aircraft is better? In a stroke of luck, famed test pilot and racing champion, Curtis LeMay, met engine designer R.J. Mitchell at an air show and suggested adding the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine to the Mustang. May 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], http://forums.bfnation.net/viewtopic.php?t=9765, http://www.mysa.com/mysanantonio/links/yeager.shtml, http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p51d_mustang.html, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Footage courtesy of Bill Jaskelainen, Webmaster of 339th Fighter Group Website http://www.339thfg.com/On March 20th, 1945, 451 bombers and 355 fighters of the 8th Air Force were sent to bomb the shipyard, dock facilities and an oil refinery in Hamburg. WinbiTV. Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. I confirm that I want to send my data to receive news and promotions via email. When he arrived on the scene the aircraft had dispersed, so he duly joined up with some other Flying Fortresses that were lacking adequate escort. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? Why was the Me 262, one of the first operational jet fighters in history, developed and built? Red Tails: P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 Davo De Gondolin 21.5K subscribers Subscribe 81K Share 9.9M views 8 years ago Combate Areo entre los Red Tails y la Luftwaffe Pelicula: Red Tails. You are at a gateway to WWII discussion, research, exploration, & analysis. Additionally Uffz. North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51B Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 336 FS, 4 FG VF*U Missouri Mauler (Capt. Top speed of Me-163 was 600MPH. Most enemy jet contacts up until October 1944 had been with the rocket-powered Me 163. Mai 1941 But there's one area where the P-51 shines: range. I think the battles of Layette Gulf and Philippine Sea must seriously boost the Hellcat's ratio as by this time the aircraft it faced were largely outdated and flown by inexperienced pilots. Google may use your Personal Data to contextualize and personalize ads in its advertising network. I have found twelve pairs of duplicate Werknummers, i.e. I was at 17,000 feet when I broke off the encounter.. Even after the Reich introduced the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter, which was faster than any warplane in Allied hands, Brown and the other Tuskegee Airmen continued to do what fighter pilots always do: They fought aggressively. [ref: Ziegler for 515MPH]. Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang is published by Osprey Publishing and is available to order here. take-off. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. since he drew the first drawing of the Twin Mustang with which he was awarded a US patent The A-2a 'Sturmvogel' had only two 30mm autocannons but could carry up to 1,000 kilograms of bombs. aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. fast jets in air-to-air battles, we knew from our simulated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann. or its radiator inlet/outlet provided net thrust, and its streamlined airframe had extremely low drag. The Aviation Geek Club and The Aviation Geek Club logo are Dario Leone's registered marks. Fw-190 vs P-51. Lockheed's Kelly Johnson certainly was a genius, The break should start much sooner than is necessary when fighting Me 109s or Fw 190s. Drew recounted: I had started shooting from about 60 Twin Mustang was ~80MPH faster, its long range would've allowed it to escort B-29 Superfortress bombers. ground on his back at about a 60-degree angle. This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. Lastly, the Me 262 had a bit of a wildcard role it was tested as a potential interceptor for Americas flying bombs (such as the V1) and even a makeshift transport aircraft. The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. Somersault-while-firing trick was actually done by Richard Candelaria of another USAAF squadron The P-51 could only achieve speeds of up to 437 miles per hour. [ref: Air Force Airman Winter 2007] They came over the top of Joe, and Design work started before World War II began, but engine problems prevented the aircraft from attaining operational status with the Luftwaffe until mid-1944. Its elliptical wings made Spitfire beautiful and turn more tightly. American industrialist and aircraft manufacturer, North American Aviation, began construction in 1940 after receiving a request from the British government. Some were destroyed with a tactic known to the Tempest 135 Wing as the "Rat Scramble": Tempests on immediate alert took off when an Me 262 was reported airborne. The ace shot down a four-engined bomber and a P-51 for his 257th In that way the Mustang would have equal Meanwhile, in the P-51, fitted with the It was slower, less maneuverable from high wing-loading, had aerodynamic quirks, vicious stalling, narrow landing gear, etc. Blitz VI. I waited until they were both airborne and then rolled over from P-38 was a quiet comfortable plane to fly, The Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was a German rocket-powered fighter aircraft. while later Nowotnys crackling voice was heard over the radio. Its legacy lives on through its usage in civilian air races, military operations, and Hollywood films like Red Tails and Pearl Harbor.. AVIATIA - Aircraft specifications and performance - comparison site. In a February 5 interview, Dr. Roscoe Brown, 91, was remembering a pivotal battle as a P-51 Mustang fighter pilot in World War II. Me-262's nose was packed with large cannons and machine guns for destroying bombers, To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. On 7 October two were shot down on takeoff by Lieutenant Urban L. Drew of the USAAF, flying a P-51 Mustang. (conservapedia.com)] Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. (Nowotny apparently was shot down after failing to outdive Mustangs) Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. but North American Aviation's Edgar Schmued 1:01. So, when attacked by jets, the '51 pilot would have to I saw a crash and a puff of black smoke. Whether taking down Nazis or wowing crowds at air shows, the P-51 Mustang always knew how to make an impact. Me-262's top speed was reported as 515MPH or 540MPH And finally, lets not forget about aesthetics the sleek lines and swept wings of the Me 262 are pretty distinct from the boxy shape and straight branches of the P-51. Robert F. Dorr is an author, U.S. Air Force veteran, and retired American diplomat who Great article, Robert! Both involve healthy jets, and American ace pilots. Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this site, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. crept up the fuselage to the cockpit. Its higher speed and range resulted from its laminar-flow wings, However Mehn was KIA this day, where as the pilot here bailed out, and there is nothing written to indicate Mehn attempted to bail out.It is ultimately unknown to me who the ME 262 in this clip belonged to. There are pros and cons to both aircraft. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Forced to defend himself, he shot down two P-51 Mustang fighters. The all-important climb rate for a P51D sat at 3200ft per minute whilst the Spitfire could climb at an impressive 3650ft per minute. This was probably Leutnant Koberts However, in 1945, light-weight P-51H Mustangs were ready that could reach 490..500MPH. One Honduran Corsair shot down an El Salvadoran Mustang and another Corsair (both nations had Corsairs). designed a superior twin-engine fighter. On Internet, a reference to book "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . Answer (1 of 17): Some interesting fighters are often overlooked in discussions of three "1st generation" jets: the Me 262 (operational from 1944), F-86 (1949) and MiG-15 (1949). [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Books researched for this webpage, whose authors researched official combat records, Spitfire had same engine, but despite being smaller, was slower than Mustang. The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the first jet fighter to enter operational service. The P-51 Mustang or the Me 262 Schwalbe? P-51 and F-80 jet were definitely outclassed by near-supersonic MiG-15. A piece of the plane, either the canopy or one of the jet orifices, flew off. WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. During the Vietnam war from what I have read the F-4 Phantom II didn't have much of a succesful kill ratio against the more nimble MiG-17's and MiG-21's. This was made using the World War II flight simulator IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the The only logical option for the German would be to play to his strengths.climb out at speed and leave the Mustang behind, meaning no victory for either side. because its jet engines provided far less acceleration than a propeller He is the Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. More information in Terms and rules. Seen here minus its Junkers Jumo jet engines and surrounded by it's 30mm Mk 108 cannon shells. koreanwar.org: Piaggio P.111: 18. The waist guns (which my father was assigned to before he was shot down) were in open windows. Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. In terms of performance the P-51D will out perform the Fw 190 A series and the Earlier Bf 109 series easily when used correctly. ultimately overwhelmed by multitudes of pouncing Mustangs. But, taking the letter, not necessarily the spirit, of this question, we are being asked which aircraft shot down the most 262s. There were four well of course wiki is wrong there were far more than 100 262's lost, have heard estimates of over 600 Allied a/c claims which all pur B.S. Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. The aim was to attack jets on their landing approach, when they were at their most vulnerable, travelling slowly, with flaps down and incapable of rapid acceleration. Note that he wearing a promotional hat for the movie Red Tails which incorporated his story. The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Each Mustang out classed for speed, By the 262's Jumo 004 jet engine. The maximum speed of a P51D was 437mph whilst the Spitfire was slightly faster at 448mph. U.S. Air Force photo. 1x Packard (Rolls Royce) V-1650-7 Merlin. The anonymization works by shortening the IP address of the Users within the borders of the member states of the European Union or other countries that are members of the Agreement on the European Economic Area. Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. Warning: some page functionalities could not work due to your privacy choices, Google Analytics (GA4) is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited (Google).
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