lieutenant pronunciation royal navy

I don't understand all the nasty comments. 'Lieutenant' comes from French lieu ('place') and tenant ('holding'). If you believe Wordfence should be allowing you access to this site, please let them know using the steps below so they can investigate why this is happening. A lieutenant was numbered by his seniority within the ship on which he served, so that a frigate (which was entitled to three) would have a first, a second, and a third lieutenant. I would have thought that the RN would have used the Lieu (loo) style in the Great War if not earlier as I cannot see senior officers changing their grammar. . The most prevalent opinion seems to be down to the Roman Latin use of the letter "V" in place of a "U". But it seems the answer is not known by the best scholars Oxford can produce. The Yanks call it "lootenant" across the board. NmFiZGIxNzIxNTJhN2I5YzM5NWNiMTI2MjVjMTQzZTdkYTIwNWExMjEzNjY2 lieutenant / ( lftnnt, US lutnnt) / noun a military officer holding commissioned rank immediately junior to a captain a naval officer holding commissioned rank immediately junior to a lieutenant commander US an officer in a police or fire department ranking immediately junior to a captain I came here looking for an answer. NWEzNjA5OGIwZDA4MDk1MzliMTE3N2YwNjNjZDVhYjM5MTBmNjljNzQ3Y2Zm Some contributors have merely regurgitated what they've heard as rumors or old-wives' tales. Lieutenant could have been spelled Lievtenant' and the pronunciation might just have stuck. Worcestershire Regiment who died 23/02/1915 LOKER CHURCHYARD Belgium ' eyJtZXNzYWdlIjoiYWI0NjU5MTI5OWU1ZmVmYzM1NWQ2Y2M3ZmJjYmU0OTE3 . They drop the "f" and say "le-tenant." What is a lieutenant called in England? Thereafter his designate was known as the "leftenant". Free shipping for many products! I do certainly appreciate that - I used to do freelance work for the OED - but I suppose what I was trying to say, and not as clearly as I might have done, is that diverging pronunciation doesn't always produce different meanings. [citation needed], In the Royal Navy, promotion to lieutenant is done in line with seniority. Lieutenant Commander's may be Executive Officers and also they may find themselves Commanding Officers of some of the Royal Navy's smaller units. dailyinfo[2]=' 8020 Serjeant Charles POOLE "C" Coy. I am not certain, but would guess that it may have been the American pronunciation which diverged when Noah Webster's Dictionary was published - he rationalized (according to his lights) spelling, and it may be that he tried to rationalize pronunciation too, especially given the US/French entente in the 18th century. Such is the case with the word lieutenant. Remembered Today: GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. I like all different accents from any country - it's interesting to me. ~~~ The answer is that it was the original pronunciation. dailyinfo[3]=' 45 Gunner HAZURA SINGH 31st Mountain Battery Indian Mountain Artillery who died 03/03/1920 TEHRAN MEMORIAL Iranm ' Why do North Americans pronounce "caramel" as "carmel"? As a language it is spoken throughout the world, which helps everyone. And lieutenant means place keeper (lit. I thought 'leftenant' was only used by Americans imitating - or caricaturing - British English. I was always taught - in the '50s - that "left" was army, "loo" was American, and Le'tenant (emphasis on the "ten" )was RN, and therefore right ! The French have said lieu at least back to the Middle Ages. No, "lief" is a different word, akin to "love" (German "Lieb"). dailyinfo[1]=' Staff Nurse Edith Mary CAMMACK Associate of the Royal Red Cross, 2nd Class 4th Southern Gen. Hos. ZjM1MTZmYWYxOTNiMzYxOGJmYTIxYWQ2ODkzZTMxYjY2YjU1MjYwOTE5MDU2 I encourage you to visit the. var year=mydate.getYear() lieutenant /lftnnt/ (say lef'tenuhnt) as the primary pronunciaton, although/lutnnt/ (say looh'tenuhnt), and Navy /ltnnt/ (say luh'tenuhnt) are alternatives. advantages of masking animation. . YzQxODA2MmJmNGEwNTE2NTFjY2Q0NmNlNThkZmFlNTAwMDM5MDQ0NzBjNThh To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. According to More Word Histories and Mysteries: From Aardvark to Zombie (American Heritage Dictionary), the origin of the pronunciation with /f/ is not known with any certainty, but similar pronunciations are attested in Middle English times by such spellings as leuftenant, luffetenand, and levetenaunt. The members of the Army and Royal Air Force say "lef-tenant", but in the Royal Navy that's a solecism ("loo-tenant" there). The Oxford English Dictionary suggests that use of the Middle English forms with f may also have been encouraged by an association of the first element [lieu] with other English words, such as the noun leavea lieutenant being an officer who substitutes for another who is on leave or perhaps one who has the superior officers leave to take command when he is absent or otherwise unable to fulfill his functions. We stung the pride of the Royal Navy more than anything. How is lieutenant pronounced in the Royal Navy? I'll just note the UK pronunciation you cite is not 100% prevalent in the UK, I've known more than a few Brits that pronounced it the same way Americans do. English is a rhotic language. This stage of training covers practical and theoretical elements of being an officer, according to the Navy. The appointment of "first lieutenant" in many navies is held by a senior lieutenant. Left - tenant will eventually. (Salonika) Territorial Force Nursing Service who died 01/03/1918 KNOWLE (SS. Americans changed it to fit their own odd version of a perfect language. ), from lieu "place" (see lieu) + tenant, present participle of tenir "to hold," from PIE root *ten- "to stretch." The notion is of a "substitute" for higher authority. In the U.S. Navy or U.S. Coast Guard, the billet of first lieutenant describes the officer in charge of the deck department or division, depending on the size of the ship. He's actually correct. RAILWAYS, MALT WHISKY, REAL ALE AND WORLD BEERS, RUM, Upcoming changes to logging in - click here, GWF is free to use so please support the Forum. But it seems less likely. In the 1700s an American English dictionary was written by a man named Noah Webster. After the post, I will try to research the etymology of 'Lieutenant.' lieu as the first element of a compound was sometimes apprehended by Englishmen as a v or f. Possibly some of the forms may be due to association with LEAVE sb. /l(j)evtnnt/ (hypercorrection) Assimilation /l(j)eftnnt/. Sub-lieutenant is the equivalent rank in the Royal Canadian Navy. In the United States, contingent on the type of uniform worn, U.S. Navy, U.S. Coast Guard, USPHS Commissioned Corps, and NOAA Corps lieutenants also wear pin-on metal collar, shoulder, or headgear insignia, or cloth shoulder, collar, tabbed, or headgear insignia identical to that of a United States Marine Corps captain and similar to that of a United States Army, United States Air Force, or United States Space Force captain. . I defer to your right to say it anyway you please. I, personally, have always pronounced it as lieu - tenant - because it simply makes sense to say it this way. Maybe Russian and British English got the word through German, which regularly changes the 'u/w' sound to the 'v' sound; whereas we Americans took the pronunciation directly from French? It is possible that when the English heard the French pronounce the compound word lieutenant, they perceived a slurring which they heard as a "v" or "f" sound between the first and second syllables. This would suggest that the word was originally French, and the leftenant pronunciation is down to some poor transliteration during the middle ages. lieutenant commander (royal navy) English translation: lieutenant commander (royal navy).. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Personally, I think that regardless of the tradition, the simple lack of a letter F should mean that you don't pronounce it "left-tenant". Browse lien lienee lienor lieu lieutenant lieutenant governor life life assurance life coach To the man referencing Websters English dictionary, do yourself a favor and pick up an Oxford English Dictionary. I am commenting to apologize to the Brits on behalf of the Americans who are NOT narrow-minded and appreciate other cultures. else { document.write(fontstart+"No major events today"+fontend); } MDUwMTdkNzA4YTAxNTJkZWY1ZWU0M2U2M2U0YjViZGNjN2ZlZjEyYTQ0YjQ4 WW2 US M1 HELMET LINER H R HOOD RUBBER GOOD CONDITION. Anybody got a copy ? How to spell out short vowel pronunciations, Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string. I would image in the US we say loo-tenant because of how it's spelled..According to websters, Lieu is pronouced, loo. I read somewhere that the RN switched to 'left' because it became too difficult to persuade new recruits, used to hearing 'left' in war films about the British Army, to use 'let.'. Apply Now Where will your journey take you? How do you ensure that a red herring doesn't violate Chekhov's gun? I just could not find a suitable spelling for the intonation of the voice - still cannot actually, but Le'tenant is about it !! . var daym=mydate.getDate() Note the spelling with f and v. The Old French word lieu had a rare variant form luef, and a form of Old French lieutenant using this rare form rather than lieu may have been picked up by Middle English speakers. Historically, the lieutenants in a ship were ranked in accordance with seniority, with the most senior being termed the first lieutenant and acting as the second-in-command. What is Prince Williams rank? How can we prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? For a great example of Elizabethan Pronunciation (which, by the by, was used over 200 years BEFORE the RP non-rhotic pronunciation became popular) check out this youtube link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s. The Oz did copy RN speak re Lieutenant, but this came about as RN were terribly wary that the LOOtenant as `spoke' by the `Old-Colonials' would creep in. MTc1ZTU0OWMwZGM0ODA5OTc4OWQzYmQ1NmVjZGIzOWZhZjEyYWQwYzFiNGVh YzJhODAzODZjNDA1OTNmMjQxYmVjZTlmYzI2Yzk4MDk5ZTMyODRjOGRhZjYy Royal Army Medical Corps who died 22/02/1919 NUNHEAD (ALL SAINTS) CEMETERY United Kingdom ' As Greene had gone into summer-quarters apparently, and the American partisans were just then quiet, his lordship left all his forces in charge of Stewart, went down to Charleston, and embarked for Europe to seek the restoration of his . lieutenant pronunciation royal navy Y2NhNTQ5OGQzMmZjYjFiODhkOWIzZDZiY2U2YWE2ZjI5MWQwMWQ3ODM5NjYx Who is Katy mixon body double eastbound and down season 1 finale? Please click for detailed translation, meaning, pronunciation and example sentences for lieutenant commander (royal navy) in English Featured roles Military/Naval history, Engineering history, old telescopes, ballistics. That said, it sounds downright silly to pronounce "lieu" as "left," but if Brits like it that way, it's fine with me. What are the 4 major sources of law in Zimbabwe? The French don't swap v & u, but their Latin Roman ancestors did; as do the Semites (Phoenicians &/or Hebrews). var dailyinfo= new Array(31) dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. I do enjoy the battle between the Americans and the British as to which is "proper" English". Irish Guards who died 18/03/1916 CALAIS SOUTHERN CEMETERY France ' Of means to show ownership. var fontend = '' MjhjYjNlYjk1YjUwNTA3MGEwNGZmYWFhYjk2Yzg4MzE3OThiNjkyZjg2ZWZj Is it like saying "Leftenant" without the f, or saying "le tenant"? Usage explanations of natural written and spoken English. Language changes are speeding up as global communication smooths out the differences. Don't you think it's time to put away our swords, or in this case, hateful words? One of his wounds was a stab in the mouth which partially mangled his tongue, when he arrived at camp the next day he went to the colonels office and the Colonel asked him his name, because of his wound he pronounced it 'leftenant' and because of the relation to his name 'lefting' his pronunciation of 'leutenant' and the fact that he was left on the battlefield, that battalion changed the traditional word 'leutenant' to 'leftenant' I suppose after the story was spread it just kind of stuck. It is funny that you mentioned the way some American Southerners/Appalachians sound like they are speaking Elizabethan English. Of course- this is opinion and I have been wrong before. I tried to sound sympathetic and replied, I am sorry, its been a very busy day and we have no cabbage, would you like to try some broccoli Once again the lady huffed and puffed and repeated now in a very cross tone that suggested the shortage was my fault, I said I wanted a savoy cabbage. Thanks to all the gracious people who understand the value of discourse. Still puzzled As said before, I think it was to do with the lack of standardised spelling and pronunciation with U and V. I also think that leftenant was the English pronunciation until the American Revolution, when the Americans began to pronounce it "loo-tenant" either to distinguish themselves from the British or to better communicate with their French allies. This little story offers another simple explanation of the inserted "F" in the pronunciation. If you really wanted to check, the Oxford English Dictionary staff might be able to advise. Instead, I found 20 or so different answers! The insignia of a lieutenant in many navies, including the Royal Navy,[5] consists of two medium gold braid stripes (top stripe with loop) on a navy blue or black background. dailyinfo[4]=' Matrose Paul KURZKE Torpedoboot "G85" German Navy who died 04/03/1919 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' 3/ It is a good job Ben from Denver isn't from Dover. I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it (even though I've had that "American Speech" article I quoted from for five years now). I speak no more like a hick than Tony Blair speaks like Russell Brand. 1375 "lutenand" and "That..luf-tenand Was of to the king of Yngland", 1387 "leeftenaunt". Here's a link to the Revolutionary War Theory: http://www.livescience.com/33652-americans-brits-accents.html. There is one common abbreviation for the word lieutenant: Lt. No response from any American on this page has earned such a bitter rebuke. It is possible that Middle English speakers may have heard the final (w) of this word [] as a (v) or (f) []. Royal Indian Navy rating : Ty/ Temporary : TE. merchant seaman serving under Naval Articles, Naval Officers and subjecting them to naval discipline (number of the form) Tindal. There is a rarely used word, lief, which I see in old books in phrases like "I'd as lief jump off this wall as " and I think it is another spelling and pronunciation of lieu. The Norman French phrase 'lieutenant' may have predated the Latin rendering 'locum tenens'. ZGI1YjZhNWRkZmVjZWJhMDhhOWIyZjRjOGZmNDY3ZmZhYjZmN2VkM2YwN2Nm Then "lieutenant" would have the pronunciation of "lyeuchtenant". Way back in the evolution of English as a language, the letters 'V' and 'U' were basically the same. 16 Reply [deleted] 5 yr. ago [removed] Reply It's simply an attempt for English speakers to pronunce French phonemes, I don't believe there's an additional reason. Just want to clarify, Americans speak proper English, not the British. According to Lexico, "the u at the end of Old French lieu was read and pronounced as a v, and the v later became an f". There are differences in the way it is spelt and spoken but ultimately isn't it great that so many people can share a common language and so be able to develop a common understanding. Websters dictionary only lists Lieutenant. Author has 1.9K answers and 1.2M answer views 3 y 2. Also hear how to pronounce 'COLONEL" correctly: https://youtu.be/YyiLRtxCWuE Listen and learn how to say Lieutenant correctly (military rank) with Julien, "h. Royal Navy who died 15/03/1917 CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL United Kingdom ' Back in the 1800's Leutenant Mark Lefting was wounded during a battle, his men presumed him to be dead and left him there when they could not find him. ivanti servicenow integration. Royal Indian Navy rating (may be found spelt Tendal) Topass. The British didn't much like the French at one timeand anglicised words that my be mistaken as french. I think the people addressing the old U and V issue are on the right track, however I think a better explanation is that in old french, lieu was spelled luef. (English pronunciations of lieutenant from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus and from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary, both sources Cambridge University Press) What is the definition of lieutenant? instead of "Aren't I?" Colonel and Lieutenant Colonel Colonels and Lieutenant Colonels owe their titles to the Sixteenth Century Spanish King Ferdinand. The "lefttenant" doesn't exist in French, at least, I didn't find it, I will search further. Lieutenant salaries at Royal Navy can range from 44,510 - 55,095 per year. To qualify an officer to receive a Lieutenant's Commission he must have attained the full age of 19 years, and have been borne on the Books of, and actually served in, one or more of Her Majesty's Ships not less than five complete years, eighteen months as a Cadet and three years and six months as a Midshipman, and shall have passed such Both forms, whyever they exist, just happened to stick. If the Lieutenant was killed, the Left Tenant took the sword and became the Lieutenant. [89], The I'm glad I know now why it's pronounced that way and I thank you for the information. I recall when joining the Canadian Navy back in the seventies that the pronunciation was more like "le tenant" or "luh tenant", not sure how to write it, and followed Royal Navy usage, so it was essentially a third way to pronounce the word. The RAF usually went along with LEFT, as befits RFC heritage. Also could the different pronunciation be influenced by the fact that an army lieutenant is not the equivilent rank of Lieutenant RN or Flt. The Royal Navy recruitment test - Verbal ability. Royal Canadian Navy: Canadian Forces (Force Mobile Command, Air Command) Royal Canadian . The sword is carried on the left hip. The Project Gutenberg eBook of Historic Jamaica, by Frank Cundall This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere in the United States and most other parts of the world at no cost an Is it like . [TMP] "Leftenant or Lootenant?" Topic . Actually, David from Birmingham, you're flat wrong about Ben from Denver being a moron because he asserted that British people used to speak like Americans. uihlein manitowish waters; sebastian tillinger wikipedia; harry potter fanfiction harry injured after the battle; can hemorrhoids be treated during colonoscopy The word comes originally from Old French, and according to the OED, Old French replaced word- and syllable-final [w] with [f]; for the Modern French word lieu, this is shown by an Old French spelling variant luef. The Great War Forum Limited (Not all of you, some of you had some insightful comments above; but the anally retentive chauvinists above know who they are). First Lieutenant, HMS H 23 (submarine) (Portsmouth) [tender to HMS Alecto] [obtained aviator's licence (No. Reason for different pronunciations of "lieutenant", We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Deciphering two words from their Archaic spellings. pronouncing the R in Water), it should be noted that their decline in England is a rather recent phenomenon. Apply for a career in The Royal Canadian Navy Apply Now I mean if Lafayette was walkin' around at Valley Forge sayin Looo-tenant to a bunch of rebellious farmers, I could see that catching on. keeping). Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates, Using indicator constraint with two variables, Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. -----END REPORT-----. Thank the British for our language and New York, else we would be speaking Dutch in New Amsterdam (or however the Dutch spell it). A lieutenant is the second junior-most or in some cases the junior-most commissioned officer in the armed forces, fire services, police, and other organizations of many nations. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The language continues to evolve rapidly, now including not only other languages but also computer words as well. I looked at her carefully, Madam, I told you we have no ..CABBAFG.E cabbage ! She glared at me You idiot, theres no F in cabbage! I replied very slowly, Madam, thats what Ive been trying to tell you for the past five minutes!. dailyinfo[18]=' 6422 Private Charlie GILBERT 4th Coy. I think a lot of younger people in the UK also do so. Perhaps I do not have the correct letters to express the actual saying ?? Colour has a u to credit the path via the French; true, the original Latin did not have a u, but we didn't get it directly from Rome -- we got it from France! Royal Indian Navy rating (T) Torpedo (specialist) T.124. Add ${headword} to one of your lists below, or create a new one. Write it here to share it with the entire community. Seems Ben was right on the Revolutionary War beint the dividing point of British and American pronunciation, but IMO, it's pronounced with the F or V sound because of the U/V being interchangable during that time. "Orbita." LVA stands for Lieutenant Vice Admiral in terms of royal navy ranks. Check out Dr. Berg's Electrolyte Powder Here: https://drbrg.co/3xbvH0A Many years ago as a student I took a summer job working in my local greengrocers shop. ZWMwYjkxNjNhNGRiY2RhNTQ4ZTY0MjMyMDY2MDUyZTc4MjQyM2VlOGY3N2Nj If someone can dig out an earlier one Covey-Crump will be the definitive authority, and he published in the late '40s I think. What is are the functions of diverse organisms? dailyinfo[23]=' 9656 Private Isaac COOPER "A" Coy. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Have some class. The Lieutenant always had someone guarding the sword when the Commanding Officer was wearing it. What was new to me, on checking lieutenant, was the appearance of the f spelling (presumably indicating pronunciation), so early in the English version. Click on the arrows to change the translation direction. I think you'll find that American English is a simplified and bastardised (once again, "s" not "z") version of British English. Etymonline indicates that spelling with lef- dates to the 14th century, but that the origins of that spelling (and presumably its associated pronunciation) are mysterious. MzE5MGNmYTY0MDE5ZjA5MzQyNzBiMmNiN2E4YzI1OGU0MjhlZDc5NjZhODBh if (dailyinfo[daym] != "") { document.write(fontstart+dailyinfo[daym]+fontend) } Hunza Guides is Pakistan's top mountain destination management company offering full board tours, trekking and expeditions services in Pakistan. Commissioned Royal Marine Gunner. The first lieutenant (1st Lt or 1LT) in the Royal Navy and other Commonwealth navies, is a post or appointment, rather than a rank. (English pronunciations of lieutenant from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus and from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary, both sources Cambridge University Press), a curve that goes around a central tube or cone shape in the form of a spiral, Watch your back! I'm going to look at a credible site now. After the Battle of France, Blake was seconded to the Royal Air Force's Fighter Command due to a shortage .